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Old 31-10-2009, 07:27 PM   #1
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PzR Comps (ABS)

Hi, ABS eh to use or not
Personally in my opinion, All PzR run competitions should always have the option to use abs, those that don't want to, don't have to, not bothered about the Stability thing or traction control.
IF the for want of a better word, elite group who are against ABS, then why not just run an elite hardcore comp for those guys.
But don't force us average normal racer into using cars without abs.

I expect some "nice comments"

if ever the day came when the PZTCC went no abs, I'd..........................

PS BTW.....Nobody is suggesting anything, it's a topic of conversation that will have pro's & Cons
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:01 PM   #2
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Im with you on this one Rob, but as you said the Elite group want it that way and they are the ones who organise it so it will probs end up being a no assist comp that only a percentage of the site will enter.

My view is that competitions should be open to all drivers of all skill level to enter and I think it is a joke.

If they do go ahead with this I might just enter and "accidently" lock my brakes up into every corner and see what happens lol
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:14 PM   #3
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Is there talk of a mandatory "non assist" TT? If so, it's been fun running agaist you guys. I'm not skilled enough to run no abs at the moment.
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:22 PM   #4
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Personally, I don't plan on running anything without ABS. I am capable of racing without ABS, but I wouldn't do it online, as I know when I try to overtake someone, I'll probably get carried away, slam on the brakes, lock my brakes and run into the side of them. And I wouldn't be happy driving in a race where I know that people can't drive as cleanly without ABS.

I've not seen anything to suggest that ABS would be banned for anything though, so I think that everyone will still be racing twice a week
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:24 PM   #5
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Six of one, half dozen of the other. I can`t really do without ABS so that just means i don`t do that particular comp. Same as people who dont care for stock (for example) didn`t sign up for the Focus night tomorrow. Not sure what the problem is really....
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:25 PM   #6
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Nobody is suggesting anything to date mate, just creating a Hot topic of opinion
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Old 31-10-2009, 08:41 PM   #7
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if this was FM2 i'd be on the ABS side, however with FM3 the braking, especially in the lower classes, is much improved. I urge everyone to give it a good go in the lower classes. As long as you avoid fully depressing the brake/trigger, you will soon start to "feel" it, once the initial speed comes off you can press a bit further. Also found that the car is more stable without ABS.

As for Pztcc?

Maybe lobby 1 (the Premiership) should be "no assists", lobby 2 onwards can do as we please.
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:06 PM   #8
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So what are the thoughts about having the racing line forced off as well?
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:12 PM   #9
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My problem isnt with the abs its damage the setup to get the simulated tyres you need simulated damage ( I think)
Sim damage is to strong, rubbing is racing (ish) but blowing you engine heavy braking is doing my nut.
Turning off the assist is it seems a performance advatage if you can do it. so fine let people turn them off by choice I want them available. I am not using abs but dont want to risk other peoples races by a big brake lock up
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:13 PM   #10
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I don't mind anyone using any assist other than the racing line.

A competent driver will be able to drive faster, or at least as fast, as someone using STM, TC, ABS and Auto gears so don't mind someone using these as a 'safety net'
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:16 PM   #11
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Racing line or braking line? Give us better track markers and i will turn off the braking line!
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:28 PM   #12
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Cool

Eh
A different point of view here .
I have to run ABs as due to an accident I had a good few years ago I have no sense of touch in my left hand which means unless im looking at it I dont know how hard Im holding something which literally can be a pain .
If people want to run no assists let them but the rest of us should not be excluded from tts ect due to that.
Assists are there to help people and as such should be left to the person themselves as to use them or not and the option there.
As to the pztcc the voting was done at the begining for no traction control or stability.
The sim damage was also set back to limited to help as well.
Tyres and fuel stayed as sim.


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Old 31-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by PzR Dark Moon View Post
So what are the thoughts about having the racing line forced off as well?

The racing line I see as an assist that has no drawbacks (unlike the others) so should be forced off.

It adapts to your speed giving you an indication of when to brake if you've maybe pulled a good draft or messed up a previous corner - non line users need to guesstimate this.

It gives a braking marker for corners that don't have them, there's no chance of another car blocking the view of a braking mark when following or overtaking (for in car view users) and its very unrealistic - at least the other assists have a basis in reality.

Would anyone welcome a light flashing up in an F1 car letting the driver know when to brake based on speed, grip etc?

All the above I consider relevant to races where you've had time to practice, for online MP lobbies its even more an advantage - its readily apparent who's using it as they don't need to have a 'sighter' lap and have generally pulled out an uncatchable lead by the end of lap1 + first corner of second lap. Of course this advantage will diminish as we move to using our own tuned cars.
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by PzR Maxster View Post
Racing line or braking line? Give us better track markers and i will turn off the braking line!

I think the main advantage with the racing line lies with the indication of when to brake so I would lump the two together.

For the real life tracks are the amount / visibility of the braking markers any different to reality?
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:51 PM   #15
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When we started the PzTCC we forced off Traction Control and Stability. All other assists were allowed. Over the last few days there has been a large number of regular members calling for the assists to be turned off.

My opinion has always been that the original rule-set we created, were the best options to encompass as many different levels of driver as possible.

Today I was informed that if the assists weren't turned off we could potentially lose a portion of our racers. To that end the decision has been made that all assists will be forced off in any future PzR events. I will make a point that this is only going to affect PzR organised events (such as PzTCC) other Events that are Forza UK based such as FUTCC and GTC will be subject to the guys that organise them.

The idea of running different assists in different lobbies was considered, but this would potentially cause someone to get promoted into a higher group, that they have no chance of competing in.

Hopefully by forcing off all the assists we will encourage people to attain to a higher standard.
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:55 PM   #16
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tankos View Post
When we started the PzTCC we forced off Traction Control and Stability. All other assists were allowed. Over the last few days there has been a large number of regular members calling for the assists to be turned off.

My opinion has always been that the original rule-set we created, were the best options to encompass as many different levels of driver as possible.

Today I was informed that if the assists weren't turned off we could potentially lose a portion of our racers. To that end the decision has been made that all assists will be forced off in any future PzR events. I will make a point that this is only going to affect PzR organised events (such as PzTCC) other Events that are Forza UK based such as FUTCC and GTC will be subject to the guys that organise them.

The idea of running different assists in different lobbies was considered, but this would potentially cause someone to get promoted into a higher group, that they have no chance of competing in.

Hopefully by forcing off all the assists we will encourage people to attain to a higher standard.

By forcing them all off you will lose a larger portion of drivers as this is elitist and something I dont think that sould be the case but fair enough.
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
Eh
A different point of view here .
I have to run ABs as due to an accident I had a good few years ago I have no sense of touch in my left hand which means unless im looking at it I dont know how hard Im holding something which literally can be a pain

Sorry to hear that warrior - had no idea til you mentioned it the other night.

Quick question, it obviously doesn't affect your steering with the lap times you bang in, but how do you know where your left thumb is?

Oh and sorry to lower the tone, but when I read your post all I could think about was the old lying on your arm to make it go numb trick!
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Old 31-10-2009, 09:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by PzR Dark Moon View Post
By forcing them all off you will lose a larger portion of drivers as this is elitist and something I dont think that sould be the case but fair enough.

Like i say mate, I'll be on-line to discuss this shortly. I might be on now but I'm not actually there lol.
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:07 PM   #20
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well i know it won't be a great loss but that's me out!
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:11 PM   #21
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I know if need be I could learn the track for race day ( I use brake line and ABS ) and I dont mind them being turned off as it will mean I will have to practice a lot more. I am thinking of the drivers who need these assists to be at a competitive level.

In FM2 the guys who won all the events will still win these events because fast guys will always be fast so the slower guys using assists is not going to prevent them from winning so I cant see the problem.
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:12 PM   #22
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I'm done with xFactor this week, I've got a party open and I'm going to be working on a paintjob, so if anyone needs convincing feel free to join my party
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Tankos View Post
I'm done with xFactor this week

before John and Edward!
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:17 PM   #24
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As a discussion thread

I feel it would be a great shame to turn it off. I race on other sites and have been running no assists and still win the odd race so its not a problem for me takes a lot longer to learn the track pre event but its very do able.

By doing this I have found I enjoy the freedoom of using abs (fm2) and line. I dont like spending two days preping for a race. 30 mins tweeking pre race is far more fun with all assists off you cant do that or you risk running other drivers off the track.

Top class racing with some assists is a real USP.

So do we needed to learn the manual clutch now? I know the people using it are bit preaching that its a must.

ohhhhhh dear Im not happy. please leave it as it is.
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tankos View Post
Today I was informed that if the assists weren't turned off we could potentially lose a portion of our racers

Well, you're going to lose a portion of your racers if you turn them off, so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

My opinion is that everyone should be allowed to get involved as this website is supposed to "provide an environment where gamers can enjoy fun, fair and competitive racing online", and there is also "no age or skill level restrictions to join". If by turning the assists off, you're stopping people enjoying the game, then that defeats the point of this website even being here, for me.

For the people that wouldn't race if you didn't turn the assists off, I think that's just being elitist and selfish, as far as I'm concerned. Drivers that can't drive without ABS aren't going to get any better if they can't race at all. I really don't see the point in banning ABS, other than to please people who are being selfish and stopping others from taking part.

Personally, I can race with either, but I don't feel as confident racing with ABS off against real people who won't be too happy if I knock them off the track. I would rather finish 5th, knowing that I've not ruined anyone's race by running into the back of them, and have enjoyed the race in the process.
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:28 PM   #26
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@ pengwinz

The only assist I would call for being off is the line as it makes the fast faster

I think its important to reiterate that the only championship being talked about is the PzTCC, none of the FUK championships, TT's etc.

Maybe it does seem a little elitist, but so is being part of a racing team surely?
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:28 PM   #27
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I'm using the racing line and if its forced off in comps then fair play to ya . I'm out
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by M14EYD View Post
@ pengwinz

The only assist I would call for being off is the line as it makes the fast faster

I think its important to reiterate that the only championship being talked about is the PzTCC, none of the FUK championships, TT's etc.

Maybe it does seem a little elitist, but so is being part of a racing team surely?

I've never used the racing line, as I find it puts me off and it's generally quite misleading, from my experience of it, so I can't really comment on that. But if people are gaining an advantage from using it when they don't need it, then maybe it should be turned off, I don't know.

As for race teams being elitist, I guess so. I've never thought of PzR as being an "elite" group of racers though, more as a group people who can drive stupidly fast, and enjoy the game at the same time.
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:42 PM   #29
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Old 31-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #30
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I wouldn't class PzR as an 'elite' group of racers either! I was just eluding to the whole changing your gamertag and joining a team could be considered elitism by some, it is quite frankly a horrible word and from looking up some definitions:

The term elitism or the title elitist are sometimes used resentfully by people who are (or claim to be) not a member of an elite. The implication is that the alleged elitist person or group thinks they are better than everyone else, and therefore put themselves before others.

I hear what your saying regarding the 'no skill level required' - there still isn't however, certainly no more than if someone decided to run a CCGT chamionship!
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