Go Back   FMUK > Project Cars > Tunes



Register Now for FREE!
Our records show you have not yet registered. To sign up and get instant access to all our features, simply fill out the form below.

Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail:
 
Image Verification
  I agree to forum rules 

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2015, 08:55 PM   #1
HLR Dark Moon
Manuel Almoonio
 
Dark Moon's Avatar
Location
Billingham
Gamertag
HLR Dark Moon
Rep
2101
Joined
Apr 2008
Posts
10,308
vCash
100
Awards
Photocomp Winner 
Twitter Profile YouTube Profile
McLaren F1 - Zolder - Help needed

I have been trying to get this car tuned for over an hour now and no matter what I just cant get it to stop trying to kill me at any given opportunity.

If any of you tuning guys out there have the time to spare to make this car nice and stable I would very much appreciate it as my next race is going to be a 3 hour endurance ( I am playing on 100% race distance )

So far I can run 38's, but the problem I have is that I end up binning the car once every 2-3 laps as the back end is so lively.

Like I said any help is very welcome.
__________________
Dark Moon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2015, 09:52 PM   #2
HLR Dark Moon
Manuel Almoonio
 
Dark Moon's Avatar
Location
Billingham
Gamertag
HLR Dark Moon
Rep
2101
Joined
Apr 2008
Posts
10,308
vCash
100
Awards
Photocomp Winner 
Twitter Profile YouTube Profile
Thread Starter
This is what I have got so far

Click the image to open in full size.

The car is now stable, but still a lot of work to go into this to get it right.

I haven't touched on the ride height yet as the first chicane is just evil lol.
Brake pressure is at 85% and I think I might be able to get a couple more % out of it before it locks up and have the balance set at 60% ( tcs is at 6% ).

I also think there is some time to come off with the springs as well as the bump/rebound.

The slip pre-load and brake mapping are set to max in an attempt to keep the car stable under braking ( not sure if that is right, but that is how I have read the description so please correct me if I am wrong ).


ps - I am rather enjoying the tuning side of this game, but am still unsure about what each setting really changes the overall performance, so if anyone can link me something to read/study for me to learn more about tuning that would be great.
__________________
Dark Moon is offline  
Last edited by Dark Moon; 03-06-2015 at 09:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 07:16 PM   #3
TfR Spiny Anteater
Race Team Manager
 
Spiny Anteater's Avatar
Location
Herts
Gamertag
Spiny Anteater
Rep
3715
Joined
Jun 2009
Posts
5,967
vCash
39405
Awards
Photocomp Winner Photocomp Winner 
Can't say I've ever driven either the car or track, so bear in mind that these suggestions are based on nothing more than eyeballing the tune...

First up, a question. Where are you feeling it try to kill you? Steady state cornering, corner entry or corner exit? Or is it over bumps? The first three questions are the usual ones I ask, while the one about bumps is down to something I noticed on the figures above. Namely, that your rear suspension is very stiff compared to your front. I know that there is a massive great 6-or-so litre engine sitting over the back wheels on this, but twice the strength of the front does seem high even so. The fact that you appear to have biased the ARBs (sway bars) heavily forwards would seem to be an attempt to counteract this.

So, first step I would do is reduce the rear springs a little, adding a similar amount to the fronts (perhaps start at 40/70 N/mm and move from there) and if you start getting understeer try softening that front sway bar.

If it's still playing up, try to look at the question above and decide where it's most deadly, then you can move forward from there.
__________________
Clubman GT Winner (only 'cos Jamesy got pished)

We all learn from our mistakes. I am very well educated...

RIP Stuart (Hoonta). Gone. Not Forgotten.
Spiny Anteater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2015, 07:20 PM   #4
HLR Dark Moon
Manuel Almoonio
 
Dark Moon's Avatar
Location
Billingham
Gamertag
HLR Dark Moon
Rep
2101
Joined
Apr 2008
Posts
10,308
vCash
100
Awards
Photocomp Winner 
Twitter Profile YouTube Profile
Thread Starter
Cheers spiny.

I have done this race now, but will go back to the car to try your suggestions out as it will be a race that I do again.

After the 2nd chicane there is a bump just before the left hander and this is where the car really likes to get out of shape. Also on corner exit the rear end does feel like it wants to overtake the front of the car a little.
__________________
Dark Moon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 10:13 PM   #5
TfR Spiny Anteater
Race Team Manager
 
Spiny Anteater's Avatar
Location
Herts
Gamertag
Spiny Anteater
Rep
3715
Joined
Jun 2009
Posts
5,967
vCash
39405
Awards
Photocomp Winner Photocomp Winner 
Acknowledging that this is about two months too late for you, I finally came up on this race in career. Going to try running the race tomorrow night, albeit shortened probably to 1.5-2 hours or so. (Just done Practice and Qualifying)

The tune:

10/08/2015 - Zolder - McLaren F1

--Tires & Brakes:
Tire Compound: Automatic by Weather
Front Left Pressure: 2.20 Bar
Front Right Pressure: 2.20 Bar
Rear Left Pressure: 2.01 Bar
Rear Right Pressure: 2.01 Bar
Brake Pressure: 95%
Brake Balance: 62%
Brake Duct: n/a
Brake Traction Control Slip: (15%)

--Aerodynamics & Chassis
Front Downforce: n/a
Rear Downforce: n/a
Weight Jacker: n/a
Lateral Weight Bias: n/a
Longitude Weight Bias: n/a

--Alignment
Steering Ratio: 14.4:1
Left Caster Angle: n/a
Right Caster Angle: n/a
Front Left Camber Angle: -1.7 deg
Front Right Camber Angle: -1.7 deg
Rear Left Camber Angle: -0.8 deg
Rear Right Camber Angle: -0.8 deg
Front Toe-In Angle: 0 deg
Rear Toe-In Angle: +0.3 deg

--Suspension
Front Left Ride Height: 120mm
Front Right Ride Height: 120mm
Rear Left Ride Height: 120mm
Rear Right Ride Height: 120mm
Front Left Spring Rate: 53 N/mm
Front Right Spring Rate: 53 N/mm
Rear Left Spring Rate: 74 N/mm
Rear Right Spring Rate: 74 N/mm
Front Sway Bar: 92 N/mm
Rear Right Spring Rate: 50 N/mm

--Dampers
Front Left Bump Stop: 0mm (5 clicks from left)
Front Right Bump Stop: 0mm (5 clicks from left)
Rear Left Bump Stop: 0mm (5 clicks from left)
Rear Right Bump Stop: 0mm (5 clicks from left)
Front Left Slow Bump: 5500 N/m/s
Front Right Slow Bump: 5500 N/m/s
Rear Left Slow Bump: 4800 N/m/s
Rear Right Slow Bump: 4800 N/m/s
Front Left Fast Bump: 2500 N/m/s
Front Right Fast Bump: 2500 N/m/s
Rear Left Fast Bump: 3000 N/m/s
Rear Right Fast Bump: 3000 N/m/s
Front Left Slow Rebound: 9000 N/m/s
Front Right Slow Rebound: 9000 N/m/s
Rear Left Slow Rebound: 8000 N/m/s
Rear Right Slow Rebound: 8000 N/m/s
Front Left Fast Rebound: 3500 N/m/s
Front Right Fast Rebound: 3500 N/m/s
Rear Left Fast Rebound: 3600 N/m/s
Rear Right Fast Rebound: 3600 N/m/s

--Differential
Limited Slip Acceleration Lock: n/a
Limited Slip Deceleration Lock: n/a
Limited Slip Preload: 50 Nm
Viscous Lock: n/a
Radiator: n/a

--Gearing
Final Drive: n/a
1st Gear: 3.23
2nd Gear: 2.19
3rd Gear: 1.70
4th Gear: 1.39
5th Gear: 1.15
6th Gear: 0.93
7th Gear: n/a
8th Gear: n/a
Peak Speed Sensitivity: n/a

--Engine
Fuel Load: 90l
Qualify Fuel Load: 25l
Wastegate Pressure: n/a
Brake Mapping: 8
Restrictor: 92


As you did, I also found that the rear of the car wanted to step out coming over the crest after the back straight chicane. It turned out there was a very easy fix for this - short-shift to 4th gear on, or just before, the crest and the issue goes away with minimal loss of time. The trickier issue for me came just after that under braking where my initial tune kept kicking the back end out trying to bleed the speed off for the right-left-right complex. In the end, I decided to sacrifice a little turn-in in the interests of stability and moved the brake bias forwards a little (from 60 to 62%) and also adjusting the damping (slight increase in front slow bump and slight decreases in rear slow and fast rebound).

At the moment, I've managed a 1:39.1 in it a few times, but haven't got into the 1:38's which I know are possible. But it's tuned for the long race, so I've gone for consistency rather than outright speed. Now if only the brakes had a bit more stopping power...
__________________
Clubman GT Winner (only 'cos Jamesy got pished)

We all learn from our mistakes. I am very well educated...

RIP Stuart (Hoonta). Gone. Not Forgotten.
Spiny Anteater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 11:48 AM   #6
Slim
Race team Owner
 
Slim's Avatar
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Gamertag
PzR Slim
Rep
6524
Joined
Jun 2007
Posts
9,012
vCash
227274
I wish I had the skill and time to tune like you guys. I literally don't know where to start with any racing game I play. In PCars I just drop the tyre pressures all round a little and leave everything else stock.
__________________
'you were a man to walk the mountains with stuart and i'm glad i had the chance to walk with you.' -Werewilf13
RIP Hoonta
Slim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 12:59 PM   #7
HLR Dark Moon
Manuel Almoonio
 
Dark Moon's Avatar
Location
Billingham
Gamertag
HLR Dark Moon
Rep
2101
Joined
Apr 2008
Posts
10,308
vCash
100
Awards
Photocomp Winner 
Twitter Profile YouTube Profile
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Slim View Post
I wish I had the skill and time to tune like you guys. I literally don't know where to start with any racing game I play. In PCars I just drop the tyre pressures all round a little and leave everything else stock.

And still kick our ass on a Sunday Night, so its just as well lol

Comments
  
  Very true!
__________________
Dark Moon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 06:26 PM   #8
TfR Spiny Anteater
Race Team Manager
 
Spiny Anteater's Avatar
Location
Herts
Gamertag
Spiny Anteater
Rep
3715
Joined
Jun 2009
Posts
5,967
vCash
39405
Awards
Photocomp Winner Photocomp Winner 
Originally Posted by Slim View Post
I wish I had the skill and time to tune like you guys. I literally don't know where to start with any racing game I play. In PCars I just drop the tyre pressures all round a little and leave everything else stock.

As Moon said, it's probably a good job you don't tune as well or we'd be being lapped on Sundays

On the time query, there is a reason why I'm making such slow progress through career, and tuning is it (for example, I probably spent around 2 hours playing time tuning up the F1). Good job I enjoy tuning.

As for skill, it's kind of you to say it, but it's really just a case of working out which setting affects what, then testing the car, feeling what's wrong, making a change and hoping that the change has improved things. Because I enjoy the tuning side of things (side effect of being an engineer I guess), I got into it and was also lucky enough to get advice from Feuerdog back int he FM2/FM3 days.

Ultimately, it's that advice which helps, but mainly in terms of saving time. Once I can put my finger on an issue with a car, knowing which setting affects what effect can cut down on the testing time as most changes will lead to a change of behaviour. The real skill is in determining exactly what is wrong with the car rather than in knowing how to fix an issue (see the guide Moon posted up for that if you don't want to spend the time learning what does what). But this is one big reason why I love PCars - how you tune a car is the big impactor on how fast it is rather than which upgrade you exploit as in Forza.

If anyone is going out testing-and-tuning, you need to first of all ask yourself whether the car is understeering or oversteering. Once you've worked that out (hopefully shouldn't take long), then it's a case of working out where the under/oversteer happens - entering/through/exiting the corner or everywhere? - then making changes to improve that characteristic. Dampers are the big thing, and probably the hardest to understand, and it's thanks to Feuerdog that I'm not struggling too much with them.

As for my tunes, I tune because I enjoy it. If it helps anyone else, that's great. If not, well at least I had fun doing it.

Comments
  
 
__________________
Clubman GT Winner (only 'cos Jamesy got pished)

We all learn from our mistakes. I am very well educated...

RIP Stuart (Hoonta). Gone. Not Forgotten.
Spiny Anteater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2015, 06:40 PM   #9
Slim
Race team Owner
 
Slim's Avatar
Location
Newcastle upon Tyne
Gamertag
PzR Slim
Rep
6524
Joined
Jun 2007
Posts
9,012
vCash
227274
Originally Posted by Spiny Anteater View Post
As Moon said, it's probably a good job you don't tune as well or we'd be being lapped on Sundays

On the time query, there is a reason why I'm making such slow progress through career, and tuning is it (for example, I probably spent around 2 hours playing time tuning up the F1). Good job I enjoy tuning.

As for skill, it's kind of you to say it, but it's really just a case of working out which setting affects what, then testing the car, feeling what's wrong, making a change and hoping that the change has improved things. Because I enjoy the tuning side of things (side effect of being an engineer I guess), I got into it and was also lucky enough to get advice from Feuerdog back int he FM2/FM3 days.

Ultimately, it's that advice which helps, but mainly in terms of saving time. Once I can put my finger on an issue with a car, knowing which setting affects what effect can cut down on the testing time as most changes will lead to a change of behaviour. The real skill is in determining exactly what is wrong with the car rather than in knowing how to fix an issue (see the guide Moon posted up for that if you don't want to spend the time learning what does what). But this is one big reason why I love PCars - how you tune a car is the big impactor on how fast it is rather than which upgrade you exploit as in Forza.

If anyone is going out testing-and-tuning, you need to first of all ask yourself whether the car is understeering or oversteering. Once you've worked that out (hopefully shouldn't take long), then it's a case of working out where the under/oversteer happens - entering/through/exiting the corner or everywhere? - then making changes to improve that characteristic. Dampers are the big thing, and probably the hardest to understand, and it's thanks to Feuerdog that I'm not struggling too much with them.

As for my tunes, I tune because I enjoy it. If it helps anyone else, that's great. If not, well at least I had fun doing it.

Cheers Spiny that is a real help. And you guys have kicked my ass plenty of times in other games, I just seem to have hit the sweet spot with PCars. No doubt with the release of FM6 I'll be back getting my ass handed to me.

Will look up DM's guide and give it a crack. Any cars that have particular problems that are easy to spot come to mind as a starting point?
__________________
'you were a man to walk the mountains with stuart and i'm glad i had the chance to walk with you.' -Werewilf13
RIP Hoonta
Slim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 06:58 PM   #10
TfR Spiny Anteater
Race Team Manager
 
Spiny Anteater's Avatar
Location
Herts
Gamertag
Spiny Anteater
Rep
3715
Joined
Jun 2009
Posts
5,967
vCash
39405
Awards
Photocomp Winner Photocomp Winner 
Leaving aside the FWD cars with chronic overpowered understeer...

If I had to pick one of the few cars I've driven and tuned, I'd suggest the Evo. Admittedly, when I tuned it first of all, it was in the early days and prior to the controls being patched, but from memory it drives with a very loose back end in stock form. But if try to tune just using ARBs/sway bars and springs, you soon end up with an understeery car which kicks the back end out under braking. If you find the same results, play around with the ARBs (and springs to a lesser extent) until you're happy with the performance mid-corner. Then, assuming you have that loose back end I mentioned, try stiffening the front (slow) bump and softening the rear rebound to reduce the turn-in until you're comfortable. I found the exit not too bad, but stiffen the front rebound and soften the rear bump to reduce exit oversteer (and vice versa).

Finally, I don't know what assists you use, but I would recommend turning them all off while tuning. That way, when you put them back on for racing, they should act more as a safety net for your mistakes than a cover for car issues. Set Traction Control to maximum to minimise its intrusiveness.

Comments
  
  Ta!
__________________
Clubman GT Winner (only 'cos Jamesy got pished)

We all learn from our mistakes. I am very well educated...

RIP Stuart (Hoonta). Gone. Not Forgotten.
Spiny Anteater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 09:36 PM   #11
HLR Dark Moon
Manuel Almoonio
 
Dark Moon's Avatar
Location
Billingham
Gamertag
HLR Dark Moon
Rep
2101
Joined
Apr 2008
Posts
10,308
vCash
100
Awards
Photocomp Winner 
Twitter Profile YouTube Profile
Thread Starter
This is the difference between spiny and myself. He actually knows what he is talking about, where as I just change things and hope for the best lol
__________________
Dark Moon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2015, 06:52 PM   #12
TfR Spiny Anteater
Race Team Manager
 
Spiny Anteater's Avatar
Location
Herts
Gamertag
Spiny Anteater
Rep
3715
Joined
Jun 2009
Posts
5,967
vCash
39405
Awards
Photocomp Winner Photocomp Winner 
Originally Posted by Dark Moon View Post
This is the difference between spiny and myself. He actually knows what he is talking about, where as I just change things and hope for the best lol

....

...yet you're still quick. Must be doing something right there.

Career has moved me on to the BMW M1 Procar, and I would say that this is also a good one to try. It's probably as good at the Evo in terms of showing you what's going on in the car, but the bit about it which is really good is that you can really feel the effects of tuning with it, so it's an excellent choice to learn with. Change one thing at a time, test it, and you ought to be able to feel what that change does.

To give an idea of how responsive it is to tuning, this is the first car I've come across where I've really felt the effect of overdoing the differential preload - there was a noticeable delay in response to inputs through corners which I haven't really felt in other cars.
__________________
Clubman GT Winner (only 'cos Jamesy got pished)

We all learn from our mistakes. I am very well educated...

RIP Stuart (Hoonta). Gone. Not Forgotten.
Spiny Anteater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, big, bmw, cars, correct, endurance, engine, forza, games, guide, happy, night, race, racing, results, running, spring, stock, testing, tune, tuning, welcome

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help needed Burnz General Forza 4 Discussion 6 05-11-2013 09:00 PM
Is this needed... Milton Drift Lounge 12 13-04-2013 10:38 PM
AVG help needed Molio Discussion 6 02-03-2009 09:19 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
tracert